I just want to slap you young guys

[Friendly1]

Bruce, forgive me for saying this. I know new guys come into the forums all the time. But I have to get this off

my chest.

I keep seeing posts from teenagers and guys in their early twenties. They have no confidence with

women. That's typical. It's normal. It's okay.

But you have to get the confidence SOME TIME, guys. And

you won't find any magic powders either here or elsewhere that give you the confidence.

You just have to go

make mistakes and learn from them. The more you try, the easier it becomes. I am not saying go get used to

rejection. I am saying, go to talk to girls you have never seen before. Just say "Hi". The ones who want to talk

to you will let you know.

Use the pheromones to help them open up. Use the good colognes to make yourselves

more interesting.

I have seen a lot of crap posted by young, inexperienced guys over the past couple of weeks.

I have been there. I used to dream up these wacky schemes, too. They don't work.

What works is simply walking

up to a girl and saying, "Hi. What's your name?"

I met my ex-wife that way. In fact, I met a lot of

ex-girlfriends, friends, and whatevers that way. I meet a LOT of people that way.

The ones you agonize over,

the ones you want to be perfect for, the ones you fantasize about -- you're never going to do anything with them.

Why? Because you put so much effort into planning the perfect come on you never give yourself a chance to just get

to know her.

Pheromones won't change you. They won't prevent you from making dumb mistakes. They MAY help

mask the smaller mistakes. They MAY give you time to recover from momentary lapses of sanity.

They WILL give

you opportunities to practice meeting, talking with, and getting to know girls. That is what you need to do.



Don't try to impress them. They really couldn't care less about how impressive you want to be.

If you're a

young guy, you are being evaluated by every young girl as a potential boyfriend (and eventually as a potential

husband). Most of the time, you never make the cut and you don't even know it. If a girl has shown interest in

you, she has already put you ahead of dozens of other guys.

Use that knowledge to your advantage. Draw

confidence from the fact that she DID choose to look at you, smile at you, say hello to you, touch you. Girls have

to worry about attracting creeps and dangerous guys. They only do these things for the ones they are wiling to take

the small risk of getting to know a little better.

Learn to ignore the girls who don't send you these signals.

They are NOT interested in you, and there is no system in the world that will change their minds for them.

When

a girl looks at you, smiles, says "Hi", touches you, she is telling you in her way, "I think you may be interesting.

Please prove to me that my judgement is good."

And how do you do that? By showing her that you are NOT

self-obsessed, that you are NOT afraid to talk with her, and that you DO have some control over yourself, and that

you ARE interested in her enough to want to get to know her.

And now that I have said that, knowing that is what

older guys used to tell me when I was young, I know none of you will listen to the advice or heed it. I didn't. I

had to learn it for myself, the hard way.

But, damn, I wish those old guys hadn't been so right.

[Canucky Guy]

Hey, I'm 23 and I KNOW.

I've made the mistakes, been with all the wrong women, etc. It's sad that the most attractive thing about a guy

is confidence and 90% of guys don't have it. If they could make a product that would artificially boost a guy's

self confidence, places like love-scent.com would be out of business...

Oh wait, they do exist...at

http://www.ferarriworld.com/. Good thing merchandise here is a little

cheaper.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...women can smell apprehension, and the vibes it gives off

are 10x more potent than a vat of mones. Primitively speaking, women look to men to be pillars of strength and

security...so if you're insecure about yourself, how can a woman invest in that?

[TRock]

so you don't believe in the nlp

and those player's guide stuff?

[tim929]

AMEN!!! Preach it brother.I went

out to the grocery store tonight and practicaly threw myself at an attractive woman behind the deli counter...GOT

SHOT DOWN IN FLAMES BIG TIME!!! But I had alot of fun doing it and she actualy laughed and thought I was funny

and cute...even tho she is married (probably to a three hundred pound Marine who goes by the named KILLER.)I

embarassed the hell out of my friend that was with me too.I had no chance at this woman and I knew going in that I

had no chance...but as the motto of the S.A.S says...Who Dares,Wins!
Work on boldly rushing in where angels fear

to tread and you will find that woman have a realy good response to that.You dont have to be a jerk...just work on

your interpersonal skills by being outgoing and friendly and work on not thinking about it but by just doing it! Get

shot down!Who cares? In a sixty years when she is old and grey and cruising up and down the halls of a nursing home

in her wheel chair she will think to herself..."I wonder what happend to that cute guy that was so funny?"
Quit

worrying about it and have fun...dont take things so seriously...it called one-itis...If I dont make it with this

one there will never be another chance and I will die a virgin.Relax and enjoy life.I wish I had known that twenty

years ago.

[DrSmellThis]

Bruce,

forgive me for saying this. I know new guys come into the forums all the time. But I have to get this off my

chest.

I keep seeing posts from teenagers and guys in their early twenties. They have no confidence with women.

That's typical. It's normal. It's okay.

But you have to get the confidence SOME TIME, guys. And you won't

find any magic powders either here or elsewhere that give you the confidence.

You just have to go make mistakes

and learn from them. The more you try, the easier it becomes. I am not saying go get used to rejection. I am saying,

go to talk to girls you have never seen before. Just say "Hi". The ones who want to talk to you will let you know.



Use the pheromones to help them open up. Use the good colognes to make yourselves more interesting.

I have

seen a lot of crap posted by young, inexperienced guys over the past couple of weeks. I have been there. I used to

dream up these wacky schemes, too. They don't work.

What works is simply walking up to a girl and saying, "Hi.

What's your name?"

I met my ex-wife that way. In fact, I met a lot of ex-girlfriends, friends, and whatevers

that way. I meet a LOT of people that way.

The ones you agonize over, the ones you want to be perfect for, the

ones you fantasize about -- you're never going to do anything with them. Why? Because you put so much effort into

planning the perfect come on you never give yourself a chance to just get to know her.

Pheromones won't change

you. They won't prevent you from making dumb mistakes. They MAY help mask the smaller mistakes. They MAY give you

time to recover from momentary lapses of sanity.

They WILL give you opportunities to practice meeting, talking

with, and getting to know girls. That is what you need to do.

Don't try to impress them. They really couldn't

care less about how impressive you want to be.

If you're a young guy, you are being evaluated by every young

girl as a potential boyfriend (and eventually as a potential husband). Most of the time, you never make the cut and

you don't even know it. If a girl has shown interest in you, she has already put you ahead of dozens of other

guys.

Use that knowledge to your advantage. Draw confidence from the fact that she DID choose to look at you,

smile at you, say hello to you, touch you. Girls have to worry about attracting creeps and dangerous guys. They only

do these things for the ones they are wiling to take the small risk of getting to know a little better.

Learn to

ignore the girls who don't send you these signals. They are NOT interested in you, and there is no system in the

world that will change their minds for them.

When a girl looks at you, smiles, says "Hi", touches you, she is

telling you in her way, "I think you may be interesting. Please prove to me that my judgement is good."

And how

do you do that? By showing her that you are NOT self-obsessed, that you are NOT afraid to talk with her, and that

you DO have some control over yourself, and that you ARE interested in her enough to want to get to know her.



And now that I have said that, knowing that is what older guys used to tell me when I was young, I know none of

you will listen to the advice or heed it. I didn't. I had to learn it for myself, the hard way.

But, damn, I

wish those old guys hadn't been so right.

This was a nice post.

[BabyFace Kazzy]

Agree fully. Scan the

places for girls who are interested in you and then approach.

[phinmone]

what friendly1 said, was correct

(nice post by the way). it is very much about your attitude and how confident you appear. i'm 22 and i am gaining

my confidence every day. those who shoot down the player's guides and other stuff, are wrong! there are some

exercises and quides how to handle women. and they are good, if you find the right ones. i have had success with

some of those, better than ever before! so they really work! confidence and attitude are very important things when

it comes down to attracting women.

[Snoopy]

Friendly1 has given me something

deep to think about for the rest of the week. Thank you, I know that I'm probably one of the people you are talking

about, and I've been trying my best to change the way I think.

[camusflage]

But, damn, I

wish those old guys hadn't been so right.

Dude, that may well be one of the best posts I've ever read

on this board.. You've hit the nail on the head so hard there's now an indentation on the hammer.

Sadly,

experience is the best teacher, but she is a harsh mistress. I've only learned recently that simply injecting

myself into a conversation taking place around me with some comment or another will at worst, make someone I'll

never see again think I'm kinda creepy, and at best, become an opportunity to start a relationship of some form or

another.

[Canucky Guy]

It is better to be remembered

poorly, then to be forgotten in the sands of time.

[some808guy]

Yep! I agree...
Most of the

times... we never really listen to good advice...

then end up learning the hard way...
as it has been im sure

for millions of years... children will never learn from parents but will have experience as their greatest teacher

[bjf]

There are more pictures of kittens in

here than TM's bedroom!

[Pancho1188]

I wrote a little something in

my Memoirs on this...I call it "the post nobody wants to read" because it's the hard truth that people young and

old don't want to hear. Everybody knows it; nobody likes it.

[surfs_up]

I

know I have talked myself blue in the face about the value of actor's training in ANY social interaction. Every one

of these how to get women books and courses is essentially a subset of actor's training.

Here are two

suggestions. If you have the motivation, time, and spare funds, take a class in comedy improvisation. Humor taks a

lot of chops to do right, meaning to say that you're not desperately struggling to be funny or pull weak laughs out

with dull tongs, rather that you have the intuition to be spontaneously funny. Humor is about the greatest social

asset one could have. Make people laugh and they'll overlook almost anything else... well, up to a

point.

Second suggestion, highly important for a young man or woman who wants to get places in life, DO

SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR VOICE, DUDE...

The ironic thing is that we have mirrors everywhere and we preen

ourselves constantly, shoot, put a mirror in a cage of chimpanzees and they will be fully absorbed with the

mirror.

A miniscule minority of civilian people, those not directly working in media or entertainment, listen

to their own voices on a regular basis. We don't have too many "voice mirrors" around us to clue us in on how we

come off to others when we speak.

TOO MANY physically attractive young men and women have MEDIOCRE voices,

some have horrible voices. You need , at minimum, a good recorder and a good microphone so you can replay your

voice, and voice study materials, and then you have to work hard at it so you sound natural. If you have the

opportunity, get a voice coach and take lessons for a couple of months. A good coach will identify your weaknesses

and provide you with lessons to correct them.

A good voice is NOT an artifical "deepened" or macho basso or

try to come off like a heavy dude voice, it DOES have a balance of fundamental and overtones, smooth rhythm,

sinuousness, musicality. Women hear a great voice and they'll go DIHL without a drop of pheromones.

I did

have the chance to observe why some men had repeatedly better results with women. Those with compelling voices could

be somewhat less physically attractive, even a bit dicey in their general comportment, however their voice quality

would break through the deflector shield more than what they were specifically saying.

[DCW]

[QUOTE=surfs_up]
TOO MANY

physically attractive young men and women have MEDIOCRE voices, some have horrible voices.


QUOTE]



Like Olympic Gymnist Paul Hamm, I put him in the Mike Tyson category.
Then again he's

probably not looking to score with the chicks anyway.



DCW

[einstein]

Like Olympic Gymnist Paul

Hamm, I put him in the Mike Tyson category.
Then again he's probably not looking to score with the chicks

anyway.

I noticed that too. He's covered in muscles, but sounds like a jockey. I think a gold

medal could pick up chicks though....

I got an email last month advertising an improve your voice program by

Arthur Joseph. I don't know much about it, but it says he's coached lots of hollywood celebs, including Sean

Connery and Arnold Schwarzenegger, and Pierce Brosnan.

Here's the link for it.

[Canucky Guy]

Omg I worship you...I have

been looking for something like this forever.

[einstein]

Glad I could help. I was afraid

it was kinda tacky post a link I couldn't personally endorse.

[Canucky Guy]

I'll let you know how it

works when it gets here

[Friendly1]

There are some good references

on voice exercises out there which don't cost hundreds of dollars. Try them before you start spending money on

spam-driven programs. For example, in my Body Language

thread in the Open Discussion forum, I mentioned the book I know what you're thinking by

Lillian Glass. This excellent book briefly discusses what a person's voice says about their personality. I think

Reading People by Jo-Ellen Dimitrius and Mark Mazzarella also discusses the voice a little bit. One

of the books goes into detail about a young man who falsely lowered his voice. The author worked with him (after

his girlfriend complained about how stupid he sounded) to find his natural "manly" tone.

If you want to check

out some of the expensive programs, first try the ones which let you sample their expertise through online articles,

ezines, archives, and so forth. I would personally be very reluctant to try any product which relied solely on

sales hype to sell its products. A really good voice teacher has nothing to hide.

Here is an example of a site

which offers a voice program for a fee but also offers a free ezine with archives you can browse:



http://www.greatvoice.com/insidevoiceover.html



Here is another site which offers free online exercises and such:



http://www.vocalist.org.uk/voicetraining.html

Try

some searches for "free voice coaching", "free voice improvement", "free speaking tips", etc.

AskMen offers 7

tips for public speaking:



http://askmen.com/money/successful/46_success.html



Here are a couple of articles which provide tips on improving your voice:



http://www.insiderreports.co

m/storypage.asp_Q_ChanID_E_MR_A_StoryID_E_20000150



http://www.spebsqsa.org/web/gro

ups/public/documents/pages/pub_cb_00194.hcsp

There is a lot of information out there (and some bad

opinions, too). It takes time to find good resources, but you should be able to put together some decent guidelines

to help you improve your voice without having to spend a lot of money. Try the free tips first. See what is

involved. Any system worth the money you pay for it will require that you perform exercises and probably change

your lifestyle a little bit.

You could also visit a local Toastmasters group and ask the members for help with

your voice (they may urge you to join the group, which would be good practice). Their Web site offers some free

tips, too:

http://www.toastmasters.org/

[Canucky Guy]

You're just a veritable

wealth of useful info, Friendly =P

Thanks, I'll check out these links first then.

[surfs_up]

Home study programs may be good as supplemental training. Voice teachers come in two flavors. There are

the spoken voice teachers, who are closer to speech pathologists, often they specialize in accent elimination.

Remember the great BRITISH actor, Cary Grant, whose real name was Archie Leach and grew up a poor working class

Brit.... yeah, Archie had good voice teachers. He learned how to speak American, moved to California...

Then

there are singing teachers, who should teach you two things, voice production AND ear training... I mean, HOW are

you going to know what to do if you can't distinguish between tones ?

A good teacher must have a good ear.

He or she will find YOUR "center tone" and then play it on a keyboard or piano.

You'll learn to hum your

center tone, not as easy as it seems , to make a good pure hmmmmmmmmmmm tone, then the teacher starts moving around

the keyboard, finding the limit of you natural range, then gradually moves you above it and below it, you slowly

learn HOW to gracefully make micro-pitch changes with your voice.

Now, friends, I will tell you, gratis, one

of the all time most powerful vocal seduction tools... one that those "how to" courses probably don't have a clue

about...

It is hard to do UNLESS you have a good teacher who can gradually teach you how.

Here it

is... a sexless voice, the never get laid voice, lacks controlled micro pitch variation, a voice that takes you

places, connects with people on an emotional level, is rich in micro tonal variation. What this means is fine, but

meaningfully controlled larynx modulations that give a voice musicality. When women have that in their voices, guys

melt when they hear it. When women hear it they feel a powerful unconscious tug "YES!!! GIVE ME YOUR

SEED!!!!"....

I think this is due to an evolutionary fact that a loose, flexible , strong voice apparatus

somehow indicates superior health and superior genetics whereras a flat dry voice gives of a tattered plumage

signal...

For that reason you should be cautious about depending on one size fits all voice courses on the

internet.

[phersurf]

The seduction system I recently

bought, Non Verbal Sexual Cuing, emphasises how important the voice is. He has several exercises to improve

resonance, tempo and pausing. He also has you speak into a portable recorder so you can hear you own voice and

improve it.

[surfs_up]

pay close attention to the *critical* detail in what I wrote above... micro tonal variation. The other factors you

spoke of in the course, resonance, tempo are important. They are like the exterior structure of your voice, you have

to work on them too.

Micro-tonality is the interior structure of your voice. You do have to put the exterior

pieces in place before you can focus in on micro tone.

I appreciate that it is hard to do unless you practice

one of the voice arts, from singing to commercial voice over... a beautiful woman I know was a professional singer

who wanted to restart her career. Told me that she allowed herself TWO YEARS of practice before she was back "in

voice" and ready to perform.

Assuming you want to connect with women instead of becoming a singer you don't

need that much training. You will need some. I would make a concerted effort within your budget, buy a full fledged

home study voice course, a book or two, maybe ten hours of voice coaching if there's a teacher in the

area.

You'll know you have found "it" when other people show increased interest when you talk... I am

convinced that there is an "auditory pheromone" that is fundamentally hypnotic. When most people hear it they enter

into an alpha state. One woman told me that she had a hard time being around me as whenever I spoke she found

herself entering a light hypnotic trance. Now I kid her by using my Mickey Mouse voice when I'm around

her.

Imagine what happens when you mix this with a good phero hit

[Indigo]

Use the pheromones

to help them open up. Use the good colognes to make yourselves more interesting.

I have seen a lot of crap

posted by young, inexperienced guys over the past couple of weeks. I have been there. I used to dream up these wacky

schemes, too. They don't work.

What works is simply walking up to a girl and saying, "Hi. What's your name?"



I met my ex-wife that way. In fact, I met a lot of ex-girlfriends, friends, and whatevers that way. I meet a LOT

of people that way.


Pheromones won't change you. They won't prevent you from making dumb mistakes. They MAY

help mask the smaller mistakes. They MAY give you time to recover from momentary lapses of sanity.

Don't try to

impress them. They really couldn't care less about how impressive you want to be.

If you're a young guy, you

are being evaluated by every young girl as a potential boyfriend (and eventually as a potential husband). Most of

the time, you never make the cut and you don't even know it. If a girl has shown interest in you, she has already

put you ahead of dozens of other guys.

Use that knowledge to your advantage. Draw confidence from the fact that

she DID choose to look at you, smile at you, say hello to you, touch you. Girls have to worry about attracting

creeps and dangerous guys. They only do these things for the ones they are wiling to take the small risk of getting

to know a little better.

Learn to ignore the girls who don't send you these signals. They are NOT interested in

you, and there is no system in the world that will change their minds for them.

When a girl looks at you,

smiles, says "Hi", touches you, she is telling you in her way, "I think you may be interesting. Please prove to me

that my judgement is good."

Hello friendly1,

you could not have said that better!!! A really great

post !!!
I know at the beginning of dealing with pheromones everybody (even me a year ago) would like to hear "Hey,

put this product on and all girls won't be able to resist you!" , although you know that's nonsense.
You really

bring the hole matter to the point: Pheromones are no magic bullet!
This post should be a duty for every newbie.

Perhaps it may discourage them at the beginning
but what is more important, it puts their expectations to a

reallistic level. Only if you expext too much, you can disappointed!

Best regards

Ingo

[MissingInAction]

Primitively speaking, women look to men to be pillars of strength and security...so if you're insecure about

yourself, how can a woman invest in that?

There is great truth in those words.

[belgareth]

Friendly,

That's one of

the best posts I've seen here. The only advice I would add is to just go have fun. Be fun and talk to people, enjoy

yourself and don't take it seriously. Somebody, I don't remember whho, once said that life is too important to be

taken seriously. In the seduction game it's more true than ever.

[neiltrain]

hear hear! i know full well

that whatever i'm wearing if i go out moody or lacking confidence it ain't happening.

alas for the younger

male confidence only comes with success, so they need to reach that critical mass.

simply being nice to girls

and getting compliments helps........

wtf am i talking about?

[Holmes]

[surfs_up]

obviously, this is not an interest or an option for everyone. It is part of my

semi-professional life (face it, theater arts are not known for their income producing reliability, enjoyable as

they may be for other reasons, if you score big, more power to you, if you don't, well, don't quit your day

job)

My teacher has been recording my voice with each training session, where we work with microphones as

one would in a soundbooth. After two months of committed work, I literally cannot recognize my own voice. The bass

registers and the overtone structures have opened up to the point where it makes my old "naive" voice sound thin and

wimpy, and frankly,
none too sexual.

This is the functional equivalent of major plastic surgery in the

realm of voice production. The beauty of it is that it is healthy, increasing lung capacity and breath coordination,

lower cost by far, and works so well that it is damned scary.

People just want to hang around me and listen

to me talk regardless of the value of what I am saying. Women seem to relax and go into a light daze. Even macho

black guys check it out... like, where you comin' from, man ?

There is a strange feeling of responsibility

I have, in a way I am radically more self conscious of how my voice affects people, a slight change in inflection

can create a positive feeling and lift another person up, a totally unintentional tonal shift can really wound

someone, I honestly never had this communicative power, and I feel like an uncoordinated teenager having to relearn

how to interact socially. I must now stop myself before I speak and think about how this thing I am about to say

will be interpreted. I know that if I say something even slightly stupid or thoughless, its stupidity will be

magnified tenfold.

As you may be thinking, when you change your "social power" you must take responsibility

for chaning your whole self, you values, your ethics, the meanings behind what you say. Being socially invisible,

being a nonentity, lets you get away with a lot of mediocrity, and the bad habits accumulate.

I honestly

can say that I never dreamed of this outcome, both how liberating it would turn out to be, or the new demands it

would impose. Such is life.