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  1. #1
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    Default Newbie question: Chikara, Perception and a ramble on

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    Hi All,

    This is quite a long first post, so

    there is an encapsulated question in the very last paragraph.


    I've ordered

    Pheromones from Bruce a couple of times over the years (PI, SOE, Realm, Edge). I've had mixed results but not used

    them much because I really can't hack the smell of most of them. My favourite was SOE as it seemed very 'gentle'

    and talkative, but I always felt it needed something else.


    Anyway, after

    receiving the last newsletter I decided to take a look at the site again as I hadn't visited in over a year. I read

    the threads on Chikara and Perception which both sounded like well engineered products, so I ordered both. I read

    that Chikara was a sociable product with a great smell, whereas Perception could have a tendancy of DIHL if used

    indiscriminately.


    They both arrived today so I eagerly tried them one squirt of

    each on an arm. What I found was the complete opposite of what I was expecting. The Chikara on my skin has that

    familiar stinky pee smell that just gets to my head after a while. I'd say must have over dosed but getting less

    than one spray from the bottle is quite an art, and scrubbing in the shower just doesn't seem to diminish it much.

    If however I spray it on a piece of tissue the smell is very much different. I'd

    say on tissue it smells very faintly like a dirty dog but it's not nearly as offensive or strong as when it's on

    my skin (x500% worse on skin at least). Does this mean that for my particular natural pheromone make up I should

    just avoid this one of these pheromones or could the batch be different to others? I can't detect much perfume in

    it at all other that a faint but sharp top note (not that my sense of smell is full spectrum

    anyway).


    I don't know if it's relevent but I'm a 35y/o Male, and find it

    very difficult to build rapport off the cuff. In contrast, when people are exposed to me for a duration then I get

    on with most people like a house on fire. I don't mean I'm shy or lost for words, it's just that when I am in the

    presence of new people the shutters tend to go down instantly, like I have a 'go away' growl about me. I don't

    feel that they dislike me at all, but more that they don't trust me, or sometimes they even become a little

    nervous. If I am around them for hours or even days then that issue seems to dissappear even if we've never spoken.

    This goes for men or women, I don't believe it is confidence or conversational issue. Back to

    topic:


    Okay, about Perception; I was expecting this to be the one that had the

    cat pee smell from the descriptions I'd read, but this one to me is far more faint and more agreeable. I didn't

    put the perfume mask on top or anywhere near it yet as I wanted to get a feel for the base product. I think I could

    wear this one without being very self conscious of the incredible rheek! of the other, or the

    headaches.


    I've read much of the FAQ and Newbie thread, and I'm beginning to

    think that there are some mones that I don't need any extra of at all (possibly even over producing already?), and

    that some I do need to 'lighten up' the first impression and balance the natural mones out. Newbie thread suggests

    that would be something like NOL. Does that sound reasonable? My favourite smell in the whole wide world is a good

    Sandalwood - that makes me feel on top of the world and I can't get enough. I also like Jasmine and Ylang Ylang.

    After reading DrSmellThis' thread about Amouage I saw the ingredients and ordered the 8x sampler pack as that might

    contain something to point me in the right direction.


    Okay, enough rambling, I

    should wrap this up with shortened question:

    Are there (generally speaking)

    certain body types that respond significantly better to some mones that others? Is there a way of determining this

    (a Laboratory that can do a sweat sample pheromone profile perhaps?). I'm going to be spending several days reading

    up on previous threads to see if I can find a way to pick the correct pheromones to get the balance, but if anybody

    has any pointers to speed that up it would be much

    appreciated.


    Regards

    Shiver

    PS. While

    writing this I've just found the WAGG product which sounds like it might help. Is that an avenue worth

    persuing?
    Last edited by Shiver; 09-01-2004 at 01:14 PM. Reason: Typed Brian instead of Bruce

  2. #2
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Who's Brian?
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  3. #3
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    Apologies I meant Bruce (duly

    corrected). I'd just been talking to someone on the phone called Brian

  4. #4
    Administrator Bruce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by belgareth
    Who's

    Brian?
    I think he means Bruce. Those Br people; they all look the same. :-)

    B
    To enjoy good health, to bring true happiness to one's family, to bring peace to all, one must first discipline and control one's own mind. If a man can control his mind he can find the way to Enlightenment, and all wisdom and virtue will naturally come to him.

    - Buddha


    Yoga in Eugene
    Fair Trade crafts from Peru

  5. #5
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    In short, no surprise that

    people respond differently to different products. Everyone has a different natural pheromone secretion and

    different personality. In the market, there tends to be products that are labeled to work well for x or y

    personality, and others that really don't have a label as the results seem to vary from person to person (Ex: AE

    and Perception). On a side note, I think perception has taken the prize for the DIHL contest haha . Anyway, you

    can speculate about what might work well for you, but there really is only one way to find out (as your

    experiencing). It takes a little bit of time and a good eye. You'll be on your way!

  6. #6
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    Thanks Matt,

    I'm beginnig to

    think what I actually need is a big dose of friendly. This weekend I'll try 1 maybe 2 squirts of perception with

    mask, and leave the Chikara out of the equation for now. I'll report back anything of note.

    Regards



    Shiver

  7. #7
    Bodhi Satva CptKipling's Avatar
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    Try washing before you apply

    your C7 (no offense...), sounds like you have a lot of bacteria on your skin for C7 to smell like cat piss.
    CptKipling

    Information about pheromones: Pheromone Information Library

  8. #8
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    CptKipling,

    You are right on

    the money there. I had been doing some house renovations all day and had quite a sweat through the day, probably

    with all kinds of bacteria on the skin. After showering the smell was much more bearable.

    Guess I'll just have

    to start showering more than once a year, whether I need it or not

  9. #9
    BDC Concepts Chemo (BDC Concepts)'s Avatar
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    The question of how

    Perception would be affected by sweat was brought up by Ingo

    HERE

    The meat and bones of my reply to

    him:
    Quote Originally Posted by Chemo (BDC COncepts)
    First, the polymer matrix forms a sticky barrier between the pheromones and

    your skin. Now, it is not sticky to the touch and only works for poly rings with the typical steroidal backbone.

    Think of it like super glue for pheromones.

    What the matrix is designed to do is hold the pheromones securely

    and release them at a known rate. A side benefit is that it also SHOULD keep other things away from the pheromones.

    Of course, that is out the window with the introduction of sweat as the bacteria will ride the wet waves to the

    pheromone mother land. However, for those that don't sweat heavily during the day it should keep pheromones in and

    bacteria out.

    In addition, we have a small amount of preservative in the formula. We really had to toss that

    around the discussion table as we didn't want to disrupt the natural production of the individual pheromone

    signature. It is our primary focus to offer a product that is truly easy application and easy removal while

    minimizing the impact on natural signature. We finally settled on a very good preservative that is also a mild

    bacteriostatic agent. This compound, once driy, should hang around for about 6-8 hours all the while keeping

    bacteria at arms length (albeit, a very small chemical arm). It will naturally dissipate before Perception wears off

    and keep the natural signature signalling the world.

    If all that weren't enough we also are the first in the

    world to use super pheromones that possess the magical ability to resist bacterial conversion. It is magic to some

    but is actually a result of months of intense training at our Kentucky self defense facility. We taught select

    pheromones to ward off the unsolicited advances of the notoriously promiscuous c. form bacteria. They learned about

    high risk conversion behaviors and are aware of the benefits of bacterial chastity. Finally, we equiped them with

    bacterial pepper spray for the aggressive ones.
    Bobby

  10. #10
    BDC Concepts Chemo (BDC Concepts)'s Avatar
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    BTW, I'm joking

    about the pepper spray part

    Bobby

  11. #11
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    I can still smell both the

    perception and the Chakira even now from that original single dose (+20 hours and counting).

    I'm about to go

    out in to the garden to work and it's pretty warm today, so I expect it'll flare up shortly like last evening.

    I'll see if the shower will finally get rid of the remainder as I want to dose from a level field before I the

    weekend.

    Btw, I forgot to mention in my previous post on interaction in the pub that the mongril dog of one of

    the bar tenders came into the pub and started clawing my leg for attention (honest!) which kinda hurt as its claws

    need clipping. I've noticed this dog probably twice a month for the last 4 years which has pretty much been

    indifferent to me throughout. I wasn't sure whether to mention this, but at least the dog is actually female


  12. #12
    Man of La Pancha
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chemo (BDC

    Concepts)
    BTW, I'm joking about the pepper spray part

    Bobby
    Hey, pepper spray is no joke! They

    evacuated an entire building yesterday across the street because people's eyes started burning. They thought it

    was bio-terrorism, but it was just pepper spray someone let loose into the air and ran away...

    (Joking about

    getting all serious with you, but the story is real)

  13. #13
    & Double Naught Spy InternationalPlayboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pancho1188
    Hey, pepper spray is no joke! They evacuated an entire building yesterday across the street

    because people's eyes started burning. They thought it was bio-terrorism, but it was just pepper spray someone let

    loose into the air and ran away...

    (Joking about getting all serious with you, but the story is

    real)
    I saw that story. Guess you must be in Washington DC then.

  14. #14
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    Update for day 2:

    Tonight I

    tried 1 spray (and I emphasize just 1!) of Perception with nothing other than lots of very neutral 'sports type'

    deoderant (right guard).

    I started to walk up to the smokey bar that I mentioned yesterday and a neighbour woman

    (35y/o?) who's face I know but have never spoken too since I moved here (3 1/2 years ago) said hello to me from

    across the street. Initially I carried on walking as I couldn't recognize her (it was dark) but continued talking.

    When I realized I recognized her face I went over to her and chatted. As I got closer I noticed her pull back and

    diminish eye contact. She smiled a lot but it was clear she was being sociable. It wasn't a bad interaction as it

    lasted maybe 10 mins and I was ready to leave as soon as I got a signal, but the change from being across the road

    to within say 8ft of her was distinct.

    Carrying along the road I ran into a buddy who is much younger than me

    (he 18, me 35). Conversation was much better than usual and sensed it would carry for a long time until another guy

    arrived in a car who I know. I took the opportunity to get a lift to the shop with him and drop me off at the pub

    since he would be there shortly anyhow and I got him a beer in (it was getting near closing time).

    I walked over

    to the bar next to a 35y/o woman that has been hitting on me for years that I have no interest in. I thought this

    would be a good place to start but when I opened conversation I got the same false smile as the woman in the street

    earlier, then she got her drink from the bar where she had been sat an joined another table.

    Another woman that

    I've known for years (the mother of a girl I know, perhaps 45y/o?) who every week I usually have a cocky/funny game

    with came over too me (which is normal), but everything I said I again got that false smile then look away gesture

    (normally she would be in bulk laughing with lots of excessive touching).

    It's at this point that I started

    to get paranoid, and I was aware that I could stil smell this single spray on me. Then a young good looking girl

    (21y/o) behind the bar started to stare at me. I've seen her in there for perhaps 8 or 10 months but she has never

    acknowledged me other than being distantly friendly when serving me. Soon she was hanging around and singing,

    dancing and mirroring me. I knew she had a date for the night as she was eager to leave and get changed, but every

    time she passed me she would drag past me, bang into me, or run her hand over me each time she left the bar area).

    There was plenty of room for her to avoid me by several feet if she wanted to. My now paranoid state prevented me

    from investing in this as I'd had so many negative experiences through the night however.

    Summary: It seems

    that in women, everything has been opposed. People I don't know make connection (at least initially), and those

    that I know well are put off. My feeling is that I'd like to try the same at about 1/4 of the dose, but getting

    less than one squirt is tough to do. Perhaps at some point I'll try it in clothing only rather than skin.



    Tomorrow night: Chikara (full mones but lack of scent version) only. I'll report back then.

  15. #15
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    It's an odd world and

    supplemental pheromones only add to it! hah. In the scientific world, studies hold credibility and repeated studies

    hold 10 times more. From a science standpoint, I would love to see you try to minimize variables and try again.

    Attempt to mimic the environment, dosage, clothing, sense of attitude and personality for the evening and see if the

    same people are reacting similarly. Anyway, on a side note, your part about the one bartender (21 y/o) showing

    attention after blowing you off in the past reminds me of a story. I was experimenting with some dosages I had

    (custom mix of existing products rather than throwing together something with the chemicals). Anyway, like I

    mentioned earlier, I was trying to minimize variables by going to the same club, same night, etc etc. I stayed over

    by the DJ booth for the most of the night socializing then proceeded to go to the front of the club to the main bar.

    I was with a friend talking to some random girl and having a good conversation. Then, out of no where, the

    bartender (a very attractive 35 yr old woman who would always give me no attention or otherwise bad looks) throws a

    piece of ice at my head. I turn over and motion to her "What??". She motions to me to come over so I excuse myself

    from the conversation and go up to her and say whats up? She is all smiles looking at me for about 3 or 4 seconds

    and says, "Can I buy you a shot". Now me, wanting to give her a taste of her own medicine, responded, "Sure you

    cock block". She started laughing quite a bit and poored the shot. She pushed it across the bar and stared. I

    said, "I guess you forgot to poor yourself one?". And she said, oh yeah...and grabbed a shot and filled up. We had

    a shot and I ran off. Since then, she has been extremely cheerful whenever I show up at the place. There is not

    one doubt that my experiment had worked and her signs were attributed to my pheromone additives. Just thought I

    would share that one!

  16. #16
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CptKipling
    Try washing

    before you apply your C7 (no offense...), sounds like you have a lot of bacteria on your skin for C7 to smell like

    cat piss.
    Very "perceptive" of you!
    DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)

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    Quote Originally Posted by BDC_Concepts
    ....I was

    with a friend talking to some random girl and having a good conversation. Then, out of no where, the bartender (a

    very attractive 35 yr old woman who would always give me no attention or otherwise bad looks) throws a piece of ice

    at my head....
    I've had a couple of similar experiences with barmaids when flirting with other women. I

    think there's some kind of unconscious social-proof or jealousy thing kicks in when they see that other women see

    value in you. More startling is that I've had it happen when chatting to women I would not consider very

    attractive at all when the barmaid is very attractive. Just the fact that there is a woman having fun with you

    seems to be enough. So...If you can create a pheromone mix that attracts *any* kind of woman and makes them laugh,

    then go stand near the bar you can get your woman (....dabs amyl nitrate on wrists).

    Chikara: Used 2 sprays

    last night (one on skin, one on shirt). Nothing spectacular to report. People were friendly enough, but nothing

    that couldn't pass as normal.

    Tonight I'll try 1 spray perception, 2 sprays Chikara, then report back

    tomorrow.

  18. #18
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    1x Perception and 2x Chikara



    Limited opportunities to mix with people today, so I headed out to the local pub as a fall back. There weren't

    many people in, and a friend who was supposed to meet me there didn't show for other reasons.

    I was stood alone

    for a while then a guy who is what I would call an acquaintance only walked by from around the corner and nodded

    acknowlegement, then after about four paces stopped, turned around, and asked if I wanted a drink. He then invited

    me over to the table with his buddies. I felt an incredible sense of acceptance from these guys that is not normal

    for me. There really is something to this.

    The barmaid women I mentioned a few posts back was in there, I think

    she's decided I'm okay now and kind of lingers her hand on mine when she gives me change which is quite funny.

    She also mixes her behaviour up between ignoring me, then looking back at me to see if I noticed. It's just play

    but interesting just the same.

    Need to get out to town and mix it up with a larger crowd. So far I like the

    1xPerception and 2x Chikara best, as I can't smell it at all when I have a cover cologne on, yet I know that there

    is a reasonable amount on.

    Next opportunity/update probably won't be until the weekend.

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