The human brain is divided into two spheres - the left brain and right brain. One side is the seat of consciousness and analytic abilities while the other has \"imagination.\"
During normal consciousness, the analytic side holds a supervisory control over the other and so we \"will\" ourselves to do things and check our impulses. However, control is only to degrees, varying with age, education, training, intoxicant usage, mental health.
My working hypothesis is that a DIHL is a form of trace, much like hypnotic trace or religious ecstacy. Somehow, nanograms quantities of pheromones have the ability to cause a target to lose all conscious control and \"will\" for some duration. Many religous traditions use incense to enhance religous ceremonies. On a more mundane level, we have the female pig \"freeze\" stance as another model. This might be called a state of dissassociation or \"inward viewing.\" Viewing television is another, milder form of trace. One expectation is that left-handed women are more likely to DIHL than average.
My goal is to understand this trace state better and to devise ways to influence the target while she is in that state. I\'m thinking that this is the opportunity to \"run patterns\" but what patterns will be most effective and what goal could one aim at is to be devised.
What I need from my fellow forum members are detailed hit reports that resulted in DIHL. Here are some of the items a great hit report would include:
1) Who - Details on person with DIHL - age, sex, sober or intoxicated, prior relationship with you
2) Where - Circumstances - at a noisy bar, at home
3) When - upon first meeting, how long did it last, what brought her out of it?
4) What - what did you do to cause the DIHL? What were you wearing? How did you talk to her or touch her?
5) How - How did she react? Did her opinion of you or her behavior change as a result?
I\'m looking forward to detailed and perceptive reports from you all. You can post them here or PM them to me directly. Also, I\'d be interested in any reports FROM people who have experienced DIHL in themselves.
Here\'s a doozy for you. The first time I met SDR, we had talked on the phone maybe twice, and I had a really good feeling about him already, so I invited him to my apartment, where I feel much more relaxed, and in case anything should develop, because I had a feeling something might, but really nothing more in mind than talking and maybe a little kissing.
I opened the door and took one look at him and lost my mind. We stood there staring at each other for several seconds. I have a perfect snapshot of it in my memory, still.
Ok, now this will sound weird, but I\'ll try to tell you what happened as best I can. My mind was talking to me across a great divide, from a far off distance, and I felt as though I were out of body, watching this person, Renee, go through motions. Inviting him in, asking him to sit down, hearing him talk. I remember thinking it was good that I knew stock etiquette phrases to say, e.g., \"Please come in, sit down, can I get you something to drink\" because I had to struggle to be able to do that much. All as if underwater, everything miles and miles away. I remember putting ice in glasses and pouring water and bringing it out to him, and taking a cool pack out of the freezer - it was warm in my apartment, the AC was not working well, and this was late July, Code Red weather, nearly 100 degrees outside and that humid.
I was in a daze.
I said here, would you like to put this cool pack on the back of your neck, it will help cool you down, and somehow the next thing I knew, I was putting it on the back of his neck and my mind said Don\'t touch him! you don\'t know him at all yet! and I wasn\'t listening.
He took the cool pack away from me and started rubbing my back with it. He was turned toward me and his arm was nearly around me, as his hand was on my back, and I remember thinking it felt like being encircled, like he was gathering me in.
I lost my mind entirely and straddled his lap. I started unbuttoning his shirt. My mind said WHAT ARE YOU DOING? and I could react to that as far as to say to him, Is this ok? and he said yes, and I kept unbuttoning. My mind was talking to me from across the gulf about no, no, no, warning I was like, raping him, stop it, what are you doing. I remember thinking it was irritating, couldn\'t She see I was busy? but listening long enough to ask him again, is this ok? while I was unbuckling his belt. Finally after about the 3rd is this ok? he took my face in his hands and looked me in the eyes and said \"Yes, Renee, Yes. Unequivocally Yes. Is that what you wanted, the unequivocal Yes?\"
\"She\" shut up.
The rest is history.
When I look back on it I can\'t believe I did that. I\'ve never done anything like that before in my life. We were having sex within 15 minutes of his walking in the door and I\'d never met him before.
But this is the guy who I can\'t get enough of how he smells, even his breath, everything about him. Intoxicating. My feelings about him have not changed or diminished in the slightest over nearly three years now.
Perfect chemistry. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
Both of us were stone cold sober, it was in the middle of the day, neither of us was wearing pheromones, he was 37 and I was 43. He\'s 6\'1\", blue eyes, hair, moustache, beard the exact color of honey, long legs, beautiful shoulders and hands, beautiful voice, musician.
BTW - he called me the very next day, early, to reinforce what had happened and reassure me. If he hadn\'t, I don\'t know that I would have had the nerve to look him in the eye again. I\'m not sure I would have seen him again. I was pretty shocked at myself and embarrassed the morning after.
That\'s why my constant advice is don\'t wait days and days to call her, and figure out what she wants to hear and say it to her.
Oh, I\'m right-handed.
I\'m assuming you already read the end of the hit-maybe thread, whitehall.
FTR - great report; very much appreciated.
DrSmellThis - I\'ve been following that thread and will research others in the archives.
This thing of disassociating really interests me. When my mother was first diagnosed, her emails to me were so bright and nonchalant. I kept thinking, it hasn\'t hit her. Finally it did hit. She told me about it over Christmas, that she said to her husband, \"Honey, I\'ve got CANCER!\" and then she went through a period of not knowing who she was anymore, she stepped outside herself completely. Her mind couldn\'t grasp it. I was disassociating like a madman, too, really struggling to assimilate and for a long time couldn\'t, just couldn\'t get my mind around it.
The only other time I remember feeling anything like the DIHL and the disassociation re my mother was a car wreck I was in with my cousin when I was 13. Someone ran a stop sign and we hit them broadside. My cousin\'s mouth hit the steering wheel and it knocked all her teeth out or pushed them up into her head; there was blood everywhere. I had bad bruises and a concussion. I can\'t remember everything about that day, just bits and flashes, and I didn\'t feel like I was in my body throughout the cops coming and being in the hospital.
Where IS that place you go to?
I guess it\'s fairly typical and well-documented for people to disassociate under shock. But it\'s weird to me that the sight of a person can make you disassociate just like that. The only things I have to compare to the DIHL of meeting SDR are a fatal illness and a car crash. Dig. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
Oh, P.S. Remember in The Godfather, when Mike is on the lam in Siciliy and sees Apolonia in her purple dress and stands there staring, slack-jawed, and his companions nudge each other and laugh and say he was hit by \"the thunderbolt\"? And he decides that very second he\'s going to marry her, goes straight to her dad\'s house to ask for her hand.
That\'s DIHL, I think.
A friend took her own life a few years ago. I was in a trance all day. And on off all weekend. Anyone who has lost someone suddenly I think would associate with this. I was is a very submissive state. (even when driving around!!). I was reacting to what people were saying and answering them (Truthfully) and not even thinking about it. I let out some things I would not have said if I was totally \"with it\". If this is similar to a DIHL state, going by what FTR said, then maybe by going through my own memories of that I could think of how to approach someone in that state.
I\'m going to think about this. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
Or here\'s a happier way to envision it. It\'s The Bicycle Christmas. You know that Christmas, remember it? When you\'re 4 going on 5 and you\'re just too old for your trike and you tell your parents you KNOW you could ride a two-wheeler if only someone would ever give you one, like, maybe for Christmas. Or maybe Santa could bring it. And your parents look at each other and frown and stare off into space and you beg and plead and they sigh and say, well, we\'ll see, I don\'t know, bicycles are expensive, and I\'m not sure you\'re really big enough yet ... and I\'m not sure Santa could carry a whole bicycle with all the other stuff he\'s got to haul, that\'s asking a lot, you know, and you think you\'ll JUST DIE if you don\'t have a bike ... and your parents act so discouraging you give up, resigned to your fate ... and then Christmas morning you come down the stairs and THE BICYCLE is standing under the Christmas tree! And you really can\'t believe your eyes, can\'t talk, can\'t move, just stand there, stupefied.
Remember that Christmas? That\'s DIHL, too, I think.
Something interesting any maybe related ti this topic.
There is a disease in humans which causes them to keep falling asleep, I mean all over the place completely at random. Scientists struggled to solve this problem, and completely by chance a Chinese scientists working on slimming drugs made a crucial descovery.
The default state for the brain is that of sleep. The brain actually has to release a chemical (I\'m unsure if it is a neurotransmitter or something else) that keeps us awake. When we wake up in the morning, our brain is flooded (or drip fed, as it sometimes feels like [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] ) this \"alertness chemical\" and our conciousness is dragged from the depths of sleep. Towards the end of the day, and after extended periods without sleep, the brain begins stopping production of the chemical.
The way that I think this has a major link is that there has to be some sort of control (consious or otherwise) over the release of this chemical. My reasoning behind this is that if we are very tired, it is highly unlikely that we just fall asleep, it is a decision to \"let go\". You will find that thought processes and motor functions are impared when tired (which must be due to a slightly innadiquate quantity of the chemical), but only in extreem cases do we fall asleep on the spot.
Maybe DIHLs are caused by a fluctuation of this chemical? Or at least some paralell function.
Or.... When I first remove my pants for a girl and she\'s like...looking... in total DIHL. Imagining all the things she could do with THAT!
heh heh heh [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]
My favourite DIHL
Bundyburger - you mean, it\'s like The Dick Christmas! lol
CptKipling, oooo, what a good hypothesis! Because it does feel like a switch is flipped. I wonder what makes that chemical release. Pheromone exchange?
The other thing it feels like is that time stops. Your relationship to time changes.
Guys, any guys had DIHL?
CptKipling-Let\'s make it my favorite DIHL too...share [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
Don\'t leave out the Inspector General ...
Of course FTR. Plenty to go around [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
Haven\'t had DIHL with a girl. I don\'t think. (And not witha guy either for those smart asses out there)
Maybe for guys, because we are checking out girls more often, we are a lot more concious about it.
I definitely relate to the Bike Christmas somehow. I\'ve seen that in little girls in similar \'present\' situations. Notice how little boys process a present MUCH quicker and start playing with it straight away. Well, more often than girls. \'My\' observations only. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]
I was hoping this thread would stick to a serious discussion rather then degenerating into the typical mindless banter.
I thought CptKipling\'s post was particularly insightful.
Hang on... I have had a DIHL kind of moment in myself. When a girl I liked a lot said she liked me. When for a long time it was a LJBF. It was unexpected and I like went \'out of it\' for a little while. But it was more semi-DIHL I think. A bit more concious.
\'It was like he was talking to my breasts!\' ... Remember that girls?? I\'ve found my self in weird moments like that where I\'ve gone into a trance for a second or two after looking at a nice set of breasts. While I was talking to the girl. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/blush.gif[/img]
The thing is I never used to be a \'breasts\' type of guy. Maybe as I\'ve experienced things more and more I have associated them as some kind of trigger or \'anchor\'.
Your right. But it\'s that \'banter\' that quite often brings out some insights amongst the rubbish. It\'s a pity it clogs up the threads, but I think you won\'t be able to avoid it.
Whitehall, I\'m loving the idea you have here with this thread. I\'m REALLY interested in the outcome like a lot of people here. I will certainly be taking notes for you, as I get DIHLs quite a bit and I should be able to make progress. (touch wood)
You know Elana, when I read BB\'s post I thought of you [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img] I\'m sure there\'s room for two FTR. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
FTR: That\'s what I was thinking. Maybe a DIHL is the responce to an external influence, pheromonal or otherwise. And maybe that responce is coincided by the release of the inhibitor of this chemical, which also has some interesting affects. There are dreams where you drift in and out of consiousness, depending on what you think about, which adds further evidence to the theory that the sleep impulse is controlled.
If a switch is being flipped, it must be a fairly general switch. We can slip in and out of daydreams randomly, it\'s just like looking inwards. But a provoked day dream only happense in two situations. The first is of extreem trauma, where the body makes a decision, either it can do it\'s best to save it\'s self, and so acts almost automatically, or the mind gives up (like in a coma) and hopes that someone else will fix the problem or waits for the body to heal its self. In the latter situation, your consiousness is drawn back into a dream-like state, and every whim is catered for, this is a place of extreem comfort. The other time day dreams occur is when you are relaxed and at ease with your surroundings. The mind feels safe enough to think (almost wistfully) about other things, but only because there is no need to be mindfull of what is going on or weary of dangers, no need to be alert. Now the interesting thing is, this chemical is directly related to alertness.
We enter this trance state sometimes because of things we think about, as is mostly the case, but also has been proven to happen with pheromonal or even just regular olfactory input. Maybe what the pheromones are triggering is the same thing that gets triggered when we enter a tranced state due to our own thoughts, which must ultimately be linked to this chemical, or one with a paralell function.
I imagine this will be of limited interest to most, but I bring it up in case there might be astrologers lurking -- I asked for this guy\'s birthdate, time and place after the fact -- and couldn\'t believe my eyes. Wrote to an astrologer in NY who\'s well known, and she said \"It\'s not your imagination. You have the four most romantic aspects there are. This is true love, the kind of stuff most people search their lives for.\"
I read it like we\'re wired to respond to certain others. And maybe part of the way we know a soul mate is by pheromone signature. And maybe that pheromone signature, when it impacts us, is part of what causes the disassociation/religious experience/trance/dream thing, which could be caused by a chemical release that has to do with controlling sleep/wake boundaries.
Go here for more details:
\"Sleeping is an essential part of everyone\'s life yet it remains little understood is barely understood. You might think it\'s a relaxing recharge but in fact your brain is working harder at times overnight than when you\'re conscious in the day.\"
\"Both of them say that showing emotion sparks the paralysing attacks and that has forced them to avoid laughing and crying.\"
\"...[when looking for] signalling chemicals in the brain, neurotransmitters, he began taking detailed X-ray images of the hypothalamus at the base of people\'s brains. With a central role in governing body processes, he was confident it could help unlock the secrets behind what affects appetite. On one set of X-ray pictures he found a chemical that seemed to be intimately connected with body weight: orexin.\"
\"[a researcher] bred mice unable to produce orexin and found that they did indeed eat less. Yet he was aware of a huge problem with his hypothesis. The mice were eating less yet still putting on weight. Filming them around the clock, he discovered that they were far less active at night than normal mice. They were having cataleptic fits and falling asleep - they had narcolepsy. The orexin was not controlling obesity; it was dictating the animals\' activity levels through their sleep patterns.\"
During sleep, the entire upper brain is in a state of lower activity. In a trance, one hemisphere (the right side) becomes more active than the other and takes control.
Maybe there is a simularity between the dreaming state and a trance (DIHL or hypnotic) but Jaynes would argue against it.
I have to say, this is brilliant. Are you by any chance a genius? Unfortunately I don\'t have anything of much intelligence to share on this front - I haven\'t been able to spot a DIHL myself yet. But your hypothesis seems sound and very interesting.
Where\'s your hypothalamus? Don\'t pheromones impact the hypothalamus?
\"You might think it\'s a relaxing recharge but in fact your brain is working harder at times overnight than when you\'re conscious in the day.\"
I think there is a difference, but only in that it is part of a sequence of events.
The hypothalamus is the site of a lot of hormonal activity. It basically dictates your mood, I think.
That part is borrowed knowledge, I think I\'ll have to take my A level Psych as an extra class (cant take it at the moment \'cos of lesson clashes), but it\'s so damn interesting!
You mean sequence of events as in a progression from beta waves to theta waves kind of thing?
Is the REM part of the sleep cycle anything like the trance state, physiologically?
Having to correct myself about the hypothalamus:
FTR: thats what I was thinking. The stages of falling asleep.
Think about it when you next fall asleep. I think it starts out as a trance like state, then orexin production completely cuts out.
REM sleep is very similar to the state when you are at the edge of sleep, you have control. Maybe that is the trance.
iirc we sleep in cycles, half an hour of deep sleep, an hour of lighter sleep. Dreams only occur in the lighter stage, but that would require further reading.
\"Whitehall... Are you by any chance a genius?\"
My mom always thought so but I haven\'t been able to convince any employers that that opinion was worth extra money.
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